Conversation No. 111-4/113-1

Date:  January 24, 1973
Time:  Unknown between 4:42 pm and 6:10 pm
Location:  Cabinet Room

The President met with Vice President Spiro T. Agnew, William P. Rogers, George P. Shultz, Elliot L. Richardson, Richard G. Kleindienst, Rogers C. B. Morton, Earl L. Butz, Frederick B. Dent, Peter J. Brennan, Caspar W. (ACap@) Weinberger, James T. Lynn, Claude S. Brinegar, Roy L. Ash, John A. Scali, Anne L. Armstrong, H. R. (ABob@) Haldeman, John D. Ehrlichman, Henry A. Kissinger, Peter M. Flanigan, William E. Timmons, Ronald L. Ziegler, Raymond K. Price, Jr., Herbert Stein, Kenneth R. Cole, Jr., and George H. W. Bush
[This conversation continues from Conversation No. 111-4; a portion of this conversation was not recorded while the tape was changed]

	1974 budget
		-Labor support
			-Brennan=s view
			-Future
			-Programs
		-Congressional Democrats
			-Committees
			-John L. McClellan
		-Labor support
			-Tax reform, jobs
		-Agriculture
			-Congress
			-Price supports
				-Previous administrations
				-Proposed cuts
					-Support
			-Gale W. McGee
				-Press conference
			-Disaster loans
				-Minnesota, South Dakota
					-Costs
			-Rural Electrification Administration [REA]
				-Costs
			-Compromise
				-Shultz=s view
			-Cuts
		-1972 election
			-President=s constituency
			-Congress
				-Spending
			-Taxes, tax money, inflation
		-Selling the budget program
			-Public
			-Revenue sharing
			-Congress
			-Republicans
				-George H. Mahon
				-Bipartisanship
				-Problems
		-Compromise
		-Maritime concerns
		-Agriculture
			-World markets
				-Trade increases
		-Labor 
			-Jobs
			-Food prices
				-Stability
		-Agriculture
			-Farmers
				-Market-based programs
			-Herman E. Talmadge and Strom Thurmond
				-Peanut subsidy
				-Carl B. Albert
			-Farm constituency
				-Problems
				-Congress
		-Need for industry encouragement
			-Job creation
			-Alaska Pipeline
				-Court case
			-Refineries
			-Jobs
		-Public support
		-Programs
			-Compromise
			-Budget cuts
				-Amount
			-Congress
				-Tax increases
			-Defense budget

	[General conversation/Unintelligible]

The President, et al. left at 6:10 pm

Conversation No. 113-2

Date:  January 26, 1973
Time:  8:37 am - 10:11 am
Location:  Cabinet Room

The President met with Vice President Spiro T. Agnew, Hugh Scott, Robert P. Griffin, Norris Cotton, Wallace F. Bennett, John G. Tower, William E. Brock, III, Gerald  R. Ford, Leslie C. Arends, John J. Rhodes, Barber B. Conable, Jr., Robert C. (ABob@) Wilson, George H. W. Bush, Roy L. Ash, John D. Ehrlichman, William E. Timmons, Richard K. Cook, Thomas C. Korologos, Kenneth R. Cole, Jr., Frederic V. Malek, Ronald L. Ziegler, Richard G. Kleindienst, George P. Shultz, and Caspar W. (ACap@) Weinberger

	Republican leadership meeting
		-Agenda

	1974 Budget
		-Congress
		-1972 ceiling
		-1973, 1974, 1975
			-Increases
		-National economy
			-1972, 1973, 1974
		-Full employment budget
		-Programs
		-As a whole
			-Taxes
		-Limestone, Rural Electrification Administration [REA]

	1973 Budget
		-Expenditures
		-Deficit
		-Taxes as percentage of Gross National Product [GNP]

	1974 Budget
		-Charts
		-Data
			-President=s radio address
			-Increases by Congress
		-Deficits
		-Spending ceiling
			-Effect on future budgets
				-Deficits
			-Tax increase
		-Dividends
		-Sources of income
		-Program cuts
			-Need for legislation
			-Medicaid, Medicare
			-Veterans= Administration [VA]
				-Pensions
			-Foreign economic assistance
			-US Department of Agriculture [USDA]
				-Farm income
					-Subsidies
			-Emergency loans
				-Reforms
					-Los Angeles earthquake
			-REA loans
				-Lobbyists
			-Department of Health, Education, and Welfare [HEW]
			-USDA
			-Department of Transportation
			-Environmental Protection Agency [EPA]
			-Increases
				-Department of Energy
				-Department of Justice
			-Federal Aviation Administration [FAA]
			-1957, 1958, 1959, 1960
		-National economic growth
			-Effect of budget
			-Federal Reserve Board
			-Monetary policy
				-Wilbur D. Mills, Arthur F. Burns
				-1967, 1968, 1969
		-Incomes policy
			-Inflation rate
		-Wage and price system
		-Expenditure controls
		-Impoundment
		-REA
		-Impoundment
			-Judicial history
			-Political history
				-Franklin D. Roosevelt, Harry S Truman, Dwight D. Eisenhower, John F. Kennedy, Lyndon B. Johnson
				-Congressional obligations
				-Past Executive Branch actions
				-Legal requirements
					-Supreme Court
				-Truman
					-Veto
				-Talking paper for congressmen
					-History
		-Congress
			-Reassertion of authority
			-Debt limit
		-Administration=s ability to control budget
		-Economic stimulation
			-Tax reduction
		-Human resources compared with defense
			-Percent of budget
			-Military payroll
				-Percentage
				-Problems due to inflation
			-Increase

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	Defense costs

[To listen to the segment (1m12s) declassified on 02/28/2002, please refer to RC# E-607.]

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			-All-volunteer army
				-Personnel
					-Manpower costs
						-Ash
			-Increases

	1974 Budget
		-Increases
			-Environmental programs
			-Aid to elderly
				-Security, Medicare
			-Food assistance
				-Food stamps, school lunch programs
					-USDA
		-Welfare reform
			-1968
		-Republican approach
			-Private industry
			-Differences between Democrats and Republicans
				-Expenditures
				-Social programs
				-Economic growth
		-Public relations
			-Impoundment
				-Spending cuts
			-Inflation
			-Impoundment
				-Democrats
				-Terminology
				-History
				-Administration position
				-Tax increases
				-Program cuts
					-Fiscal responsibility
			-Support for President
				-Statements
					-Democrats versus Republicans
		-Congress
			-Spending ceiling
				-1974 budget
		-Increases
			-Medicare
			-Civil rights programs
				-Minority assistance
				-Enforcement
				-Education
				-Amounts
			-Veterans
			-Food assistance
			-Environment
				-Clean Water Act
					-Pollution control
			-Agriculture
				-Reduction of price supports
					-Increase of farm income
			-Urban transportation
			-Housing
				-Subsidies
			-Revenue sharing
		-Public statements
			-Ash=s briefing
				-Supporting data

Oliver F. (AOllie@) Atkins entered at an unknown time after 8:37 am

	Photography

Atkins left at an unknown time before 10:11 am

	1974 budget
		-Revenue sharing
		-President=s speech
			-Language
		-Deficit
		-Cuts
		-Congress
		-Prosperity budget
		-Tax increases
		-Congress
		-Aid to impacted school districts
		-Peacetime budget
			-Program expenditures
		-Statements of support
		-Impact on national economy
		-National situation
			-Peace and prosperity
			-Statements
		-Agriculture
			-Cheese and beef producers and consumers
			-Farm prosperity
				-New world markets
		-Congress
			-Statements of support
				-Importance
		-Aid to impacted school districts
		-Higher education
			-Aid
			-Defense funds
			-Protestors
			-Student money
			-Grants to faculty and universities

	Harry S. Dent
		-Return to South Carolina

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BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 2
[Personal Returnable]
[Duration:  3m 51s  ]

END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 2

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	Economy
		-Budget
			-Presidential veto
				-Reasons
		-Economic projections
			-Stein
			-Shultz
				-Fiscal policy
				-Impoundments
		-Effect of budget

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BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 3
[Personal Returnable]
[Duration:  1m 3s  ]

END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 3

******************************************************************************

	President=s schedule

The President left at 10:11 am

	[General conversation/Unintelligible]

Weinberger, et al. left at an unknown time before 10:34 am

Conversation No. 113-3

Date:  January 26, 1973
Time:  Unknown between 10:11 am and 10:34 am
Location:  Cabinet Room

Unknown men met

	[General conversation/Unintelligible]

	Bipartisan leadership meeting
		-Schedule
		-Photographs
		-Physical arrangements for next meeting
			-Positions of charts
			-President=s location
			-Recorders
		-Photographs

	[General conversation/Unintelligible]

The unknown men left at an unknown time before 10:34 am

Conversation No. 113-4

Date:  January 26, 1973
Time:  Unknown between 10:11 am and 11:04 am
Location:  Cabinet Room

Vice President Spiro T. Agnew met with George P. Shultz, Michael J. (AMike@) Mansfield, Robert C. Byrd, Hugh Scott, Robert P. Griffin, John L. McClellan, Russell B. Long, Milton R. Young, Wallace F. Bennett, Carl B. Albert, Gerald R. Ford, John J. McFall, George H. Mahon, Wilbur D. Mills, Elford A. Cederberg, Herman T. Schneebeli, John D. Ehrlichman, Herbert Stein, William E. Timmons, Caspar W. (ACap@) Weinberger, Kenneth R. Cole, Jr., Frederic V. Malek, Thomas C. Korologos,  and Richard K. Cook

	[General conversation/Unintelligible]

The President entered at 10:34 am

	Vietnam settlement

	1974 budget
		-Dwight D. Eisenhower years
		-1973 budget
			-Figures
		-Effects on national economy
		-Debt policy
		-Federal Reserve
		-Stein
		-Economic report
			-1972 statistics
				-Unemployment rate
				-Inflation
					-Consumer Price Index [CPI]
						-Comparison between 1969 and 1972
						-Food prices
			-1973
				-Forecasts
			-Military expenses
				-Decreases
			-Unemployment figures
				-Veterans
			-Business investments
				-Equipment expenditures
			-Consumers spending
			-Housing starts
				-Subsidized housing
			-Unemployment, inflation rates
				-Decreases
			-Controls and problem areas
				-Food prices
				-Sector markets
			-Budget
				-Full employment
				-Monetary expansion
		-Federal Reserve
		-President=s economic report
		-Projected 1973 unemployment and inflation
			-Rates
			-1965 and 1968 projected economic growth
		-Projected deficits
			-Amount
			-Federal fund figure
				-Trust funds
					-1974
					-Revenue sharing
		-Items not controlled by Congress
			-Trust fund programs
				-Percentages
			-Controllable
				-Appropriations
					-Social services spending ceiling
		-Congressional limits
			-Need for reductions
		-Appropriation Committee
			-Outlay authority
			-Effects on future budgets
		-Controllable items
			-Effect on spending levels
			-Deficits
				-Eisenhower, Lyndon B. Johnson, and John F. Kennedy
			-Role of Appropriations Committee
		-1973 budget
			-Expenditures and revenues
			-Deficit
			-1974
				-Compared to 1973 figures
			-As percentage of Gross National Product [GNP]
			-Reduction
				-Compared to congressional appropriations
			-Effect on 1974 and 1975 budgets
				-Deficits
			-Taxes
				-Decreases
		-Social Security
		-Human resources
			-Increases
		-Defense

The President left at 11:04 am

	[General conversation/Unintelligible]

[Conversation continues as Conversation No. 113-5]

Conversation No. 113-5

Date:  January 26, 1973
Time:  11:12 am - 11:59 am
Location:  Cabinet Room

The President met with Vice President Spiro T. Agnew, George P. Shultz, Michael J. (AMike@) Mansfield, Robert C. Byrd, Hugh Scott, Robert P. Griffin, John L. McClellan, Russell B. Long, Milton R. Young, Wallace F. Bennett, Carl B. Albert, Gerald R. Ford, John J. McFall, George H. Mahon, Wilbur D. Mills, Elford A. Cederberg, Herman T. Schneebeli, John D. Ehrlichman, Herbert Stein, William E. Timmons, Caspar W. (ACap@) Weinberger, Kenneth R. Cole, Jr., Frederic V. Malek, Phillis Galanti, Darlene Sadler, and Helene Knapp; the White House photographer and members of the press were present at the beginning of the meeting
[This is a continuation of Conversation No. 113-4]

	Prisoner of war [POW] wives
		-Introduction
		-Efforts
		-President=s remarks

Galanti, Sadler, and Knapp left at 11:15 am

	[General conversation/Unintelligible]

	Possible Congressional Resolution
		-National Day of Prayer
		-Bipartisan support

	Vietnam cease-fire agreement
		-Effect on budget
			-Military withdrawal
			-Economic aid
				-North Vietnam
		-Defense budget
			-Vietnam War expenditures
			-All-volunteer military
			-Force levels
				-Costs
			-Background briefing book

******************************************************************************

	Defense budget

[To listen to the segment (1m31s) declassified on 02/28/2002, please refer to RC# E-607.]

******************************************************************************

	1973 Budget
		-Unspent appropriated funds
			-Congressional appropriations
			-Deficit
			-Presidential precedent
			-Congress
			-Targeted programs
			-Reasons

	1974 budget
		-Program reductions
			-Impoundment
			-Balanced budget
			-Congress
		-Military
			-Pay
		-Program increases
			-Aid to elderly
			-Food stamps
			-School lunches
			-Veterans= Administration [VA] care
			-Environment
			-Civil rights enforcement, minority assistance
			-Crime assistance
			-Pollution control
			-Agriculture
				-Farmer=s income
			-Mass transit
		-Housing
			-Federally assisted
			-Department of Housing and Urban Development [HUD]
		-Revenue sharing
		-Briefing books
		-Expenses controllable by Congress
		-Congressional responsibility
			-Tax increase
			-Spending ceilings
				-Inflation
			-Harry S Truman
				-Air Force
		-Impoundment
			-Precedent
			-President=s responsibility
			-Congressional appropriations
				-Inflation
			-Future budgets
				-Spending ceilings
			-Constitutionality
				-Richard G. Kleindienst=s opinion
		-Options and role of Congress
			-Debt limit
			-Impoundment
				-Constitutionality
			-Congressional action
				-Deficit
				-Taxes
			-Airport construction bill
			-Ceiling
			-Controllables versus noncontrollables
			-Joint Budget Committee
				-Impoundment problems
				-McClellan
			-Congressional spending
				-Ceilings
			-Ways and Means Committee
				-Mills= view
				-Appropriations Committee
					-Mahon=s view
				-McClellan
				-Taxes
			-Lyndon B. Johnson
			-Congress
				-Taxes
				-Spending
			-Budget cuts
			-Guaranteed loans
			-Rural Electrification Administration [REA]
				-Loans
			-Compromise
			-Bipartisan breakfast meetings
			-President=s responsibility
				-Defense

******************************************************************************

	Defense budget

[To listen to the segment (12s) declassified on 02/28/2002, please refer to RC# E-607.]

******************************************************************************

					-Congress
				-White House staff
					-Roy L. Ash
				-Congress=s role
				-Impoundment
				-Spending level

	President=s schedule

	[General conversation/Unintelligible]

The President, et al. left at 11:59 am

Conversation No. 113-6

Date:  January 26, 1973
Time:  12:09 pm - 12:15 pm
Location:  Cabinet Room

The President met with Caspar W. (ACap@) Weinberger, Roy L. Ash, Frank C. Carlucci, Frederic V. Malek, James S. Dwight, Jr., Paul H. O=Neill, Kenneth W. Dam, William Morrill, Samuel M. Cohn, Dwight A. Ink, Wilfred H. Rommel, William H. Kolberg, David P. Taylor, Jack W. Carlson, Walter W. Haase, Julius Shiskin, Donald E. Crabill, James M. Frey, Mark W. Alger, C. William Fischer, Ellis H. Veatch, John D. Young, Joseph Laitin, Velma N. Baldwin, James Bradley, William H. Taft, IV, Wilmer Hunt, Louise L. Yarbrough, Roger Adkins, Howard Heun, Edward Strait, William Hamm, James Rotherham, John Carey, Dale R. McOmber, C. Peter Modlin, Jr., Raymond Clarke, George Strauss, Virginia Banks, Terry Prevost, Florence Pro, Mary Fletcher, Evelyn Woltz, Marilyn Parker, and Isabelle Bethel; the White House photographer was present at the beginning of the meeting

	1974 Budget signing ceremony
		-Quality of pens
		-Duke University Library
			-President=s employment
		-Distribution of pens
			-Weinberger
				-Work on budget
				-Department of Health, Education, and Welfare [HEW]
			-Cohn
			-Veatch
				-Office of Management and Budget [OMB] personnel
				-Length of service
		-OMB=s role

	[General conversation/Unintelligible]

The President, et al. left at 12:15 pm