Conversation No. 116-8/117-1

Date:  March 6, 1973
Time:  Unknown between 10:58 am and 11:59 pm
Location:  Cabinet Room

Roman S. Gribbs met with Louie Welch, E. J. (AJake@) Garn, Dick Greco, Jr., Richard G. Lugar, Jack D. Maltester, Lyman S. Parks, Tom Moody, Thomas P. Allen, Stanley A. Cmich, James L. Taft, Jr., Kyle C. Testerman, John W. Driggs, Pete Wilson, Stephen May, James T. Lynn, Kenneth R. Cole, Jr., James H. Falk, Dana G. Mead, and Paul H. O=Neill.
[This is a continuation of Conversation No. 116-8.  An unknown portion of the conversation was not recorded while the tape was being changed; recording begins while the conversation is in progress]

The President entered at 3:04 pm

	Meeting with mayors
		-Benefits
		-Areas of concern

	Urban problems
		-Administration=s policies
			-Process for resolving issues
			-Survey of community problems
			-Youth summer employment
				-Federal funding
					-Past policies
					-Establishment of orderly process
					-Baltimore
				-Help from industry
			-Cutbacks in federal budget
				-Misunderstandings by mayors
			-Transition period
				-Problems
				-Meeting of administration and mayors
				-Specific proposals by administration
				-Use of carry-over funds
			-Urban renewal programs
				-Survey of cities
					-Results of analyses
				-Administration policies
					-Impact on cities
						-Employment
							-Emergency Employment Act [EEA]
						-Job training
						-Manpower programs
						-Control by local officials
		-Community development
			-Budget items
				-Calendar Year 1974
			-Fiscal Year 1974
				-Allocation
			-Housing
				-Freeze
			-Present appropriations
			-Better Communities Act
			-Administration policies
				-Impact
				-Land acquisition by federal government
					-Funding
					-Decision process
		-Model cities program
			-Columbus, Ohio
			-Summer 1973
				-Mayors= concerns
		-Funding of programs
			-Summer youth program
			-Administration=s goals
				-Revenue sharing
					-Appeal for mayors= support
					-Advantages
			-Summer 1973
				-Problems
					-Detroit
					-Columbus
		-Administration=s programs
			-Support from mayors
				-Revenue sharing
					-General
					-Special
			-Budget problems
				-Summer youth employment
				-Local problems
					-Inflation
					-Property taxes
				-Appropriations for domestic programs
		-Congress
			-Pressures to cut back
			-Revenue sharing
			-Summer employment
				-Restraints
				-Need for administration support

	Present meeting
		-Intergovernmental cooperation
		-Concerns about Summer 1973
			-Transition period in policy
		-Special revenue sharing

The President left at 3:39 pm

	Summer youth programs

	Administration policies
		-Authorization for cities
			-EEA
				-Amount of appropriation
			-The President=s requests
				-Amounts
				-Departments of Labor and Health, Education, and Welfare [HEW] appropriations
				-The President=s vetoes
					-Reasons
		-The President=s vetoes
			-Continuing resolutions by Congress
				-Legislative history
					-Public Employment Program [PEP]
					-Impact on cities
						-PEP
		-Summer programs
			-Neighborhood Youth Corps [NYC]
			-Spending levels
				-Sports programs
				-Legislative procedures
			-Appropriation of funds
			-Office of Economic Opportunity [OEO]
			-NYC
			-Transportation
			-Work Study
		-Funding options
			-Publicity
			-The President=s decision
				-HeadStart program
			-Problems of explanation and communications
				-Misrepresentations in media
				-Letters to mayors
			-Budget
			-Budget summary
			-Conference of Mayors
			-Problems
				-Cutbacks
					-Impact on localities
					-Confusion
						-Reasons
				-Administration=s policies
					-Transition period
				-Caution by mayors
			-National League of Cities [NLC]
				-Resolution
		-Federal programs
			-Summer programs
			-Mayors= responsibilities
			-Federal government=s responsibilities
				-Responsiveness
			-Need for communication
			-Conference of Mayors
				-Evaluation of programs

	Present meeting
		-Possible statement
			-President=s views
			-Department of Housing and Urban Development [HUD] views
		-Attitude of mayors
		-Responsibilities
			-Administration
				-Appreciation for support and criticism
		-Issues
			-Transition period
				-Problems
			-Need for dialogue with administration
				-Feedback from mayors on specifics
			-Summer programs
				-Clarification on appropriations
			-Community development
				-Scheduling of programs
				-Transitional funding
				-Mayors= concerns
				-Transitional funding
					-Availability
				-Better Communities Act
					-Purpose
				-George W. Romney and O=Neill
					-Meeting with mayors
				-Transitional funding
					-Availability
						-PEP and NYC
					-Mechanism
					-Problems
						-Resolution
						-Feedback from mayors
					-Congressmen
						-Complaints

	Lynn=s meeting with the President

Lynn left at an unknown time before 4:53 pm

	Urban problems
		-Administration=s policies
			-Problems
			-Future meetings of mayors
				-Preparation of materials
		-Community development
			-Transitional problems
				-Credibility of administration and mayors
			-Funding
				-Bill in Congress
			-Transitional funding
				-Confusion
				-Clarification
			-Water programs
				-Approval
				-Misinterpretations
				-Policy statements
		-Problems of communications
			-Advice of mayors
				-Resolution
			-Task forces
			-Work with administration
		-Administration=s policies
			-Labor/HEW bill
			-Progress
			-Transition period
				-Immediate problems
					-Lay-offs
					-Model Cities program
				-Resolution of problems

	Present meeting
		-Summation
		-Model Cities
			-Cutbacks
				-Impact of administration=s policies
		-Community development
			-Shortage of funds for localities
			-Agency actions
			-Inadequacies in programs
				-Summer youth program and senior citizens
				-Impact
				-Correction
			-Housing
				-Analysis of problems
				-Proposals for Congress
				-Administration=s policies
					-Transitional problems
				-Cancellation of projects
		-Administration=s policies
			-Caution
			-Communication problems
		-Public statement
		-Subjects of discussion with the President
			-General revenue sharing

			-NYC program
				-Necessity
				-Budgetary review
			-Strategy problems on housing
				-Transition
		-Urban relief
			-Problems of Congress
			-Publicity
			-Availability of funds

	Urban problems
		-Senior citizens programs
			-Current programs
			-Availability of funds
				-Office of Aging, HEW
				-The President=s policies
			-Congressional actions
				-Inadequacies
			-The President=s requests
				-Funding
					-Increases

	Present meeting
		-Public statement
			-Topics of discussion
			-Sources of funds
				-Office of Management and Budget [OMB]
			-Transitional problems
				-Results of discussions

	[General conversation/Unintelligible]

	Budget
		-Cuts in funds
			-Transition period
		-Community development
			-Outlays
			-Urban renewal
			-Housing

Gribbs, et al. left at an unknown time before 11:59 pm

Conversation No. 117-2

Date:  March 8, 1973
Time:  10:09 am - unknown before 12:05 pm
Location:  Cabinet Room

The President met with Vice President Spiro T. Agnew, William P. Rogers, Elliot L. Richardson, Admiral Thomas H. Moorer, Dr. James R. Schlesinger, Philip J. Farley, U. Alexis Johnson, [David] Kenneth Rush, William P. Clements, Jr., Carl Duckett, Henry A. Kissinger, General Brent G. Scowcroft, Helmut (AHal@) Sonnenfeldt, Philip A. Odeen, Ronald I. Spiers, and Paul H. Nitze
[Recording begins while the conversation is in progress]

******************************************************************************

BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 1
[National Security]
[Duration:  1h 22m 35s  ]

	STRATEGIC ARMS LIMITATION TALKS (SALT)

The President left at 11:44 am

END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 1

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Agnew, et al. left at an unknown time before 12:05 pm

Conversation No. 117-3

Date:  March 8, 1973
Time:  Unknown between 11:44 am and 12:05 pm
Location:  Cabinet Room

Unknown men met

******************************************************************************

BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 1
[Non-historical]
[Duration:  44s  ]

END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 1

******************************************************************************

The unknown men left at an unknown time before 12:05 pm

Conversation No. 117-5

Date:  March 8, 1973
Time:  Unknown after 11:44 am until 12:05 pm
Location:  Cabinet Room

An unknown man met with Mustafa Khar, Aziz Ahmed, and Sultan Mohammed Khan

	Cabinet Room
		-Seating arrangements
			-The President=s chair
			-Secretary of Commerce
			-John F. Kennedy
				-Inclusion of United States= Ambassador to the United Nations in the Cabinet 
			-Anecdote about Dean Rusk and Robert S. McNamara

	Refreshments

	Cabinet Room
		-Seating

	United States= political system
		-British heritage
			-Comparison between United States= and parliamentary systems
		-Pakistan
		-National Security Council [NSC]
			-Previous meeting
			-Members
		-Domestic Council
			-Members
			-Organization

	Pakistan
		-Constitution
			-Compared with United States=
				-Diversity

	United States= political system
		-Variety

	Pakistan
		-Powers of President
		-Parliament
			-Powers

	United States= political system
		-Local and Federal distinctions
			-Controversy
				-Civil War
				-States= Rights
		-Compared with Soviet Union
			-Role of Soviet constitution

	Soviet bloc
		-Extent of political freedom
			-Theoretical rights

	United States= political system
		-Residual powers in states
		-National constitution
			-Powers of central government
		-Pakistani constitution
			-Powers of provinces

	Ambassador=s meeting with the President

Khar, et al. left at 12:05 pm

Conversation No. 117-7

Date:  March 9, 1973
Time:  Unknown between 10:00 am and 3:10 pm
Location:  Cabinet Room

Vice President Spiro T. Agnew met with William P. Rogers, William E. Simon, Elliot L. Richardson, Richard G. Kleindienst, John C. Whitaker, Earl L. Butz, Frederick B. Dent, Caspar W. (ACap@) Weinberger, James T. Lynn, Claude S. Brinegar, Roy L. Ash, Anne L. Armstrong, John A. Scali, George H. W. Bush, Donald E. Johnson, William D. Ruckelshaus, Herbert Stein, Russell E. Train, H. R. (ABob@) Haldeman, John D. Ehrlichman, Peter M. Flanigan, William E. Timmons, Kenneth R. Cole, Jr., Herbert G. Klein, Leonard Garment, Ronald L. Ziegler, Richard A. Moore, Arthur J. Sohmer, Kenneth W. Clawson, William J. Baroody, Jr., David N. Parker, David R. Gergen, Stanley S. Scott, Franklin R. Gannon, John S. Guthrie, Jr., Tod R. Hullin, Patrick J. Buchanan, Lawrence M. Higby, Raymond K. Price, Jr., and Frederic V. Malek

	[General conversation/Unintelligible]

The President entered at 10:14 am

	Cabinet meeting
		-Purpose
		-Topics
			-Vietnam
				-Briefing by Rogers
			-Budget problems
				-Ehrlichman

	Budget
		-Current problems
			-The President=s program of action
			-Briefing of Cabinet officers
		-1972 campaign
			-Choice of financial philosophies
				-Choice of American people on domestic issues
			-Congressional candidates
				-Avoidance of George S. McGovern=s programs
			-ANew American Majority@
				-Compared with ANew American Minority@
					-Program
		-Real issues
			-1972 campaign
				-Choice of American people
			-Issues of the ANew American Minority@
				-Avoidance
				-Economy
				-Executive privilege
				-Constitutional crisis
				-Democratic Policy Committee
					-Washington Star story of March 8, 1973
					-Opinions of political scientists
					-Constitutional crisis
			-Role of federal government
			-Formulation of issues
				-Limitations of publicity
				-Taxes and inflation
			-One-page papers
			-Administration concerns
				-Publicity
			-Bills in Congress
				-Budget over-runs
					-Amounts
					-Impact on taxes
						-Increases
			-Administration position
				-Publicity
					-Administration spokesmen
						-General and special revenue sharing
						-Visits to media centers
					-Word to Congress
						-Mayors
				-Cabinet officers
				-Publicity
					-Importance
					-Efficacy
			-Use of surrogates
				-Regional coverage
				-Presidential spokesmen program
					-Parker and Guthrie
						-Work on schedules of spokesmen
					-Start
		-Presidential spokesmen program
			-Republican National Committee
			-Work of Congress
			-Visits to media centers
			-Purpose
				-Pressure on Congress from constituents
				-Mobilization of local supporters
					-Contacts with congressmen
				-Impact on public opinion
				-Appeal to congressmen=s larger interests
			-Congress
				-Expressions of respect
				-Conflicts of interest
			-White House backing
				-Briefing paper and other documents
			-Veterans= bills
				-Veterans= lobby
					-Pet projects
				-Vietnam and disabled veterans
					-Real concern of public
				-American Legion and Veterans of Foreign Wars [VFW]
					-Pet projects
				-Vietnam veterans and disabled
					-Major focus
			-Vice President and Cabinet
				-Roles
			-Sub-cabinet officers and White House assistants
				-Work with departments and constituent groups
				-Regional officials
					-New regulations and programs
			-Environmental issues and Ruckelshaus
			-Women
				-Importance of group
					-Letter writing
					-Budget concerns
						-Food prices
						-Family budget
		-Opposition to the President=s program and ANew American Minority@
			-Vance Hartke, Frank F. Church, Harold E. Hughes, Edward M. (ATed@) Kennedy, Birch E. Bayh, Jr., Thomas Grey (ATom@) Wicker, Joseph C. Kraft, Hobart Rowen, Daniel L. Schorr, Brookings Institute, Leonard Woodcock, and W. Ramsey Clark
				-Vanguard of opposition
			-Columbia Broadcasting System [CBS] show on welfare groups
				-[Mitchell?] Ginsberg and Jesse L. Jackson
				-George Wiley
				-People United to Save Humanity [PUSH] and welfare workers
				-National march on Washington, DC
			-Common objectives
				-Tax increases
				-Pressure on Congress
		-President=s proposals
			-Misinformation
			-1973 spending levels
			-1974 budget issue
			-Work with mayors and governors
				-Blame on Congress
					-Continuing resolution
			-Publicity
			-Need to pressure Congress
				-Focus on House
		-Presidential spokesmen program
			-The President=s sources of support
				-Weak areas
					-East
				-South
					-Conservatism
					-Focus
						-Spending
			-Discussion of budget
				-United States= foreign policy accomplishments
				-Peace issue
				-United States= role in world
				-Taxes
			-East
				-Support for the President
					-Richardson
		-Social services
			-President=s program
				-Weinberger
				-Real intent
			-Emphasis on individual in ANew Federalism@
				-The President=s concern
			-Liberal compared with conservative
				-Blurring of distinctions
		-The President=s inaugural address
			-New approach
		-Constitutional questions
			-Samuel J. Ervin, Jr.=s concerns
		-Bills in Congress
			-Impact on taxes and spending levels
			-Need to oppose
			-Constitutional questions
				-Ervin=s role
					-CBS
					-Johnny Carson comparison
					-Use by liberals
		-Public relations
			-Work by departments
				-Need for discretion
					-Danger of leaks of memoranda

	Political leaders
		-Credibility

	Presidential spokesmen program
		-Speeches
			-Length
				-Limits
		-Phrases
			-ANew American Majority@
			-Dangers
				-Use by opposition
		-Television appearances
			-Length
			-Presentation of key points

	Budget
		-Jobs
			-Importance of issue
		-Cost of living
		-Jobs
			-Pressure on Congress
		-Speeches
			-Appeal to larger interests
				-Protectionism
		-Spokesmen program
			-Defensiveness
			-Emphasis on positive
			-Rhetoric
				-Polls
					-Support for various programs
				-Emphasis on taxes
					-Phrasing of issues
						-Taxes compared with spending
			-Economy
				-Inflation and jobs
				-Restraints on federal budget
				-Stakes of debate
		-Spending
			-Relation to taxes and prices
				-Choices
			-Phrasing of issue
			-Focus on Congress
			-The President=s budget
				-Domestic spending
			-Choices
				-Problem in presentation
			-Education
				-Protests of lobbyists
				-Money to students
				-Protests
					-Sources
			-Public relations effort on budget
				-Assurances of concern
					-Show of compassion
				-Concern for prices and taxes
					-Impact of taxes and inflation on poor and elderly
			-Inflation
				-Impact on wealthy and middle class
				-Harm to poor
				-Need to curb
		-Sources of power
			-Centralization
			-Revenue sharing
				-Divestiture of power
			-More responsibilities for local officials
		-Program cuts
			-Community Action, Model Cities, HeadStart, and Manpower training
				-Reasons
				-Seattle, Washington and Grand Rapids, Michigan
					-Gerald R. Ford
				-Failures
				-Reasons for support
					-Patronage
			-Community Action
				-Reasons for cuts
					-Franklin D. Roosevelt
					-ATrickle down@
				-Bureaucratism and waste of funds
		-Spending
			-Income strategy
			-Elimination of bureaucratic middle-men
			-Direct aid to needy
			-President=s vetoes
				-Attacks on spenders
			-Effectiveness of programs
		-Opposition to the President=s programs
		-Spending
			-Need for action
			-Priorities
				-Defense
					-Reduction

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	Arms negotiations

[To listen to the segment (1m49s) declassified on 02/28/2002, please refer to RC# E-611.]

*****************************************************************

		-Defense budget
			-Reductions by administration
			-Need to stop further cuts

	Defense
		-Troop levels
			-Reductions
		-Draft
			-End
				-Impact on costs
		-Reductions
			-Civilian personnel
			-Difficulties

	Foreign assistance
		-Criticism
		-Necessity

	The President=s foreign policy
		-Effectiveness
		-Indochina and Thailand

******************************************************************************

BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 2
[National Security]
[Duration:  1m  ]

	INDOCHINA

	PARIS AGREEMENT

	DEFENSE BUDGET REDUCTIONS

END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 2

[To listen to the segment (38m35s) declassified on 02/28/2002, please refer to RC# E-611.]

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	Law enforcement
		-Terrorism
			-Death penalty
				-Sudan incident
			-Sirhan Sirhan
		-Legislation
		-Drug enforcement
			-References in speeches
			-Public interest
		-Crime rates
			-Decline in the President=s administration

******************************************************************************

	Diplomatic security

[To listen to the segment (1m7s) declassified on 02/28/2002, please refer to RC# E-611.]

******************************************************************************

			-Airplane security
				-Spokane, Washington incident
				-Training of officers
				-Federal Aviation Administration [FAA]
			-Major crimes
				-Punishment for drug abuse
			-Drug abuse
				-Strict enforcement
					-Results

The President left at 12:09 pm

	[General conversation/Unintelligible]

Agnew, et al. left at an unknown time before 3:10 pm